I did a survey just to find out if there was a middle ground between (Amadlozi) ancestral spirits and Christianity. This is what I got from my correspondents and friends on f/b.
Sikhumbuzo Dladla said:
Qobo Mayisa said:
HAH! GAGISA, LELO LIYIMPICABADALA. AKE NGIZAME NGITHI
idlozi - commonly means ancestral spirit but can also mean an ancestor. Considering that AmaNguni never worshipped their ancestors (ukuthethela/ukugida amadlozi) but acknowledged them in diverse ways. They started ukuthethela as they intergrated cultures especially with the shona/venda/rozvi/karanga
Its also starnge that for the Nguni the dead ancestors were called 'abaphansi' - the living dead. Idlozi therefore means the spirit that has entered a person, or the spirit of an ancestor that has entered a person - what we now call demon possession with a familiar spirit.
Therefore I can say idlozi is the spirit of a dead person that enters the living and posseses him - but as christians we know its just a demon
Nicholas Sibanda said:
Chief, Unjani? Idlozi/amadlozi are the spirits of the dead in the Ndebele context. There seemed to be little differentiation between the spirits. All the spirits were superior to the human folk, the only way to identify was the manifestation of the spirit - what it did to the person (e.g. idlozi lobuyanga or elokuloya). I think in general its a term that referes to the identity of the now supernatural of the person we used to know.
Now the spiritual world as we know it from scripture is not nuetral as our fathers thought. As such these identities were impersonations of the ancestors as known and remembered by the people. I actual fact, they were demonic spirits.
I know that other people may argue otherwise but the manifestations of the spiritual beings through mediums is characteristic of evil not good (Biblical) spirits. For me those would be the 'days of ignorance that God overlooked'. The manifestation might be desirable, and even 'good' but the source is not godly.
The other challenge for us was that the interface with the spirits was very secretive. Unlike God who 'reveals himself' this power was always in the shadows and never unveiled its nature except a few manifestations.
L Ncube said:
Yebo Gagisa, l can think of 2 meanings, somewhat
related:
1. A spirit or spirit medium ...obabamkhulu ngokwenkolo yesintu. From a christian pespective the most common view is that amadlozi are demonic forces that will pretend to be yo ancester in order to gain acceptance.
2. When l grew up l also heard obabamkhulu bebizana ngokuthi dlozi lami. In that context it means a close relative, usually senoir, that u will go to for help or counsel. I said these r related because from a trditional perspective it does not matter whether that relative is living or late u still pray to them for guidance
I heard this definition on radio today. Idlozi ngumoya wabantu abafayo asebengene kwabaphilayo. In generic context it has been used interchangable with the english "remembrance ceremony'. I have seen it as a two edged word that has to be seen in context, there are those spiritual contexts of invoking the spirit of the dead to guide and devine for you. Like Saul when he went to a prophet and asked him to get message from Samuel who had departed. (1 Samuel) Samuel commuinicates back but is unhappy. The truth is if we believe we will see okhulu ezulwini means we will meet in the afterlife. The question is invoking which afterlife, as other cultures worship and also celebrate the life of their departed.
Raphael Mthombeni said
Ayi angikholwa ukthi amadlozi yi evil spirits. Kudala kwakulabantu ababe lamadlozi ababetwasiswa babe yizangoma benze izinto ezihle belaphe bavikele isizwe. Ukuthi evil spirits ayi kungabe kuyi mordern thinking or nxa kuyisikristu wonke umuntu ole dlozi is evil. Kwavelela emakhiweni ayiwo aletha ivangeli. Babefuna ukuguqhula yonke into yomuntu okunjengsithembo lamadlozi lokunjalo. Angazi kumbe kuyakusiza?
Kunjani? Ukuphendula umbuzo wakho ngizaqala ngokuthi mina ngazi idlozi lingomoya womuntu omdala osewashiya lumhlaba. Lumoya uyavuswa ngeprocess of ukuthethela okwenziwa yizihlobo zalomuntu. Ngamafishane idlozi kumbe amadlozi is a spirit or a collection of spirits that have been awakened by relatives of the dead for the purpose of protecting, guiding or interceding for those still living. Ngingazi kumbe ngiyazwakala, hope it helps?
Ndaba sibanda said.
In my context idlozi. Yimimoya yamadimoni ezi identifier as imimoya yabo khokho.
Why this subject:
I tried to diversify my cast so that I could come up with different versions about this issue. Other sources did not reply me, and others are yet to reply me. Somebody also took me back to the process yombuyiso, which is an official way of bringing the dead back home in Ndebele, for those who subscribe and appease (amadlozi) ancestral spirits. I must also say that most people I interviewed were Christians. I personally have always taken the word very generally since we never had an ceremony to honor/or appease the ancestral spirits in my up bringing. I did this survey because I had noticed that the Western influence to Christianity in Africa had long demonized our culture in many ways. I have learnt to honor the truth even if its not the truth that I want.
3 comments:
Kodwa uma siqinisekisa ngokufunda emibhalweni ye manual yo muntu ngeke silokhu siphikisana kodwa ngoba sifuna uku sho ngezinqondo zethu sizoba nenkinga all in all amadlozi is the orther part of demons not abantu abafayo yowo u$qondo nje kaSarthane awufaka kithina
Hi there, only lack of understanding will lead people to quickly deduce that ancestors are demons. I won't judge, i'll just say people need education as i feel there is serious mistranslation and misunderstanding of the bible. If indeed ancestors are demons, then the very same living person that is possessed by those ancestors is also a bigger demon since they come from the same family line. I think people must stop putting words in GODS mouth and trying to hide behind the bible. If you don't understand something, rather take the time to learn, understand, deduce then make an informed comment. Spirituality like politics, is a very sensitive and confusing subject because people tend to get emotional and defensive fairly quickly. In closing, All i can say is that GOD works in mysterious ways, and how he does this is none of my business, but he is in charge, and I'm chosen to receive messages through the deceased, i'll do so with kindness, for never ever has any of my ancestors asked me to kill or still. Instead, they've consistently asked, why aren't you praying to GOD anymore, why aren't you healing GOD's people, and for as long as i let GOD's people suffer, i will suffer as well?
Hi there, only lack of understanding will lead people to quickly deduce that ancestors are demons. I won't judge, i'll just say people need education as i feel there is serious mistranslation and misunderstanding of the bible. If indeed ancestors are demons, then the very same living person that is possessed by those ancestors is also a bigger demon since they come from the same family line. I think people must stop putting words in GODS mouth and trying to hide behind the bible. If you don't understand something, rather take the time to learn, understand, deduce then make an informed comment. Spirituality like politics, is a very sensitive and confusing subject because people tend to get emotional and defensive fairly quickly. In closing, All i can say is that GOD works in mysterious ways, and how he does this is none of my business, but he is in charge, and I'm chosen to receive messages through the deceased, i'll do so with kindness, for never ever has any of my ancestors asked me to kill or still. Instead, they've consistently asked, why aren't you praying to GOD anymore, why aren't you healing GOD's people, and for as long as i let GOD's people suffer, i will suffer as well?
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